11. Beyond the Chart: How Visual Stories are Healing Healthcare

Visual narratives can impact healthcare by humanizing patient experiences and reconnecting clinical expertise with empathy.  Krystle Schofield reveals how by sharing her own journey from photographer to digital storyteller.

Key Messages:

• Photography evolved from a creative passion to a therapeutic tool when Krystle's second child was diagnosed with a rare disease
• Documentary family photography captures unposed, authentic moments in family life, preserving both joyful and challenging experiences
• Digital storytelling workshops create supportive environments where participants gain agency over their personal narratives
• Trauma-informed approaches ensure storytellers are emotionally ready and maintain control throughout the creative process
• Stories can be shared in various healthcare settings including rounds, meetings, conferences, and educational platforms
• Authentic, unpolished narratives create unique emotional connections in today's polished media landscape
• Visual storytelling helps healthcare providers see beyond clinical data to understand the complete person

Connect with Krystle:  

• Website
• YouTube
• Instagram
• LinkedIn

Other Links mentioned:

• Common Language Digital Storytelling Facilitator Training Programs
• Listen to the podcast interview with Dr. Mike Lang 
• Disrupting Death Digital Stories
• Disrupting Death Research Project
• Cannabis Harm Reduction Digital Storytelling Project

Thank you for listening!

Do you have a question or a topic related to "capturing essence for care" that you would like discussed on the podcast? Send Lisa an email: awestruckaspirations@gmail.com

Interested in learning more?

• Check out my Etsy Shop
• Visit my YouTube channel or website

Intro and outro music with thanks: Upbeat and Sweet No Strings by Musictown

Chapters

• 0:00 Meet Crystal Schofield
• 4:44 Documentary Family Photography
• 8:38 Personal Trauma and Photography
• 12:42 Sharing Digital Stories Effectively
• 20:01 Creating Safe Storytelling Spaces
• 24:18 Visual Elements in Digital Stories
• 31:40 Capturing Essence in Healthcare

Transcript

Lisa: 0:05

Welcome to Capturing Essence for Care, where we discuss the importance of incorporating personal life stories into healthcare and share ideas to help you on your journey. I'm your host, Lisa Joworski. Well, hi everyone. I'm very excited today to have a good friend of mine who's in the common language digital storytelling field with me. Her name is Krystle Schofield, a level two common language digital storytelling certified facilitator and photographer with me today. With a background in design and education and lived experience as a rare disease parent, crystal works with organizations and individuals to elevate the human experience through personal storytelling in the form of short films and authentic imagery. She is just a beautiful artist, in my opinion, and you should check out her website, but we'll get into that after. She specializes in providing a trauma-informed approach for creating personal stories that share diverse perspectives, prioritizes well-being and helps people connect to their voice.

Lisa: 1:13

Krystle, I'm super excited to have you. Before we started today, I reminded myself and reviewed your website and it's just stunning. Between your photography and the digital stories and all of the experience that you've compiled over the years being displayed on there. I just really encourage people to go check it out, because it is remarkable, um, how you capture a moment, just even natural moments that are that are at home with family just doing regular, normal things. So welcome. I said a lot of stuff but.

Lisa: 1:52

I just really want you to know how much I appreciate your work and being here.

Krystle: 1:57

Thank you for filling my cup so much. I I am super happy to be here and I'm grateful that you're having these conversations. Thanks for having me.

Lisa: 2:08

Absolutely. They mean a lot and I would love for you to go into more detail on how you are doing the work you're doing, what you're focusing on now and really, I guess what we're going to talk about, what capturing essence means to you over this time together. But I just want you to start with whatever feels natural to you, maybe talking about what made you decide to focus on digital storytelling and photography and kind of the order that that happened in.

Krystle: 2:38

Yeah, it's. It's not a linear, you know, not a linear journey, I would say, and I think that's akin to many creative folks out there. Photography has always been a passion of mine since I think I was 13 and my high school had a dark room and that really drew me in and I remember just spending hours in there developing photos and learning how to take them. This was before the digital era and then I worked in a photo lab developing pictures and was all into it. I would just go out at night with my photography buddies and we would, you know, shoot street photos and just go have fun. So it's definitely just been a part of my, of my kind of, I guess, my always my creative output uh, having the camera and uh, and then what I took pictures of evolved over time. So obviously you're initially learning how to use all of the modes of your camera, especially in manual, um, but then, as time went on and I became a mother, I started to realize that there was all this action happening around me that wasn't being documented. And that's when I guess it was about in 2016, no, 2014.

Krystle: 3:59

I looked up, you know, is anyone documenting mothers at home with their kids? Is anyone documenting mothers at home with their kids, is that a thing? And it was just the very beginning of this sort of method for photographing families, which is termed it's called documentary family photography. So there's a really actually quite a tight community of documentary family photographers globally who seem to be quite interconnected once you, once you step into that world, and very supportive of each other to just lift each other up and teach each other the skills, critiquing photos and approach, and all of that because it's a very moment-based practice. You are literally just with your eye on the lens, you know, waiting for those moments to appear in front of you, and so that's sort of how I got into this type of photography that I'm doing now.

Lisa: 4:51

I've never heard of that. I've never heard of documentary family photography, so it's it's people who are interested in taking pictures of families specifically.

Krystle: 5:01

Yeah, families specifically unposed. So typically our sessions run for a half of a day with a family, or even a full day. Sometimes photographers will spend even a night with the family. So you're capturing, from the moment you wake up till the moment you go to bed, all of the rawness of the that experience, right? So not just not just the happy moments, but the challenging moments, the tears, the mess, the I think also the environments that we're raising our children in. They're all things that we've curated in our lives and I think, especially when you get into motherhood, there's that sort of nesting phase, right? Everyone, everyone's figuring out like you know, where am I gonna get the things that I need and how am I gonna? You know what's my philosophy for raising my kids, and that's all very apparent in our homes, and so I guess the home has been sort of a theme for me, you know.

Lisa: 6:00

But I'm just thinking back to knowing you and our time together, crystal is very much into. Well, you can correct me if I'm just thinking back to to knowing, knowing you and our time together. Crystal is very much into. Well, you can correct me if I'm wrong but like design and the home and just the environment in general, right?

Krystle: 6:14

Yes, yeah, I mean I have. So I do have a background in interior design, so that's, uh, that probably makes sense that I'm very aware of our space and how it feels to be in our space and what we surround ourselves in. Yeah, yes, but the home in general is.

Krystle: 6:30

I think it's a really important place for us and when we're talking about health care and one of the things I was speaking to you earlier about was just this idea of what does health care look like in our homes as well. So part of documenting families evolved for me into digital storytelling, because really, when we're looking at images of ourselves, it's a process of reflecting on ourselves, on our lives, on the place we're at in that moment, and it fits and aligns very well, I think, with digital storytelling, which is similar, except for we're adding a narrative to it.

Lisa: 7:07

Yeah, so that all happened for you. What year did you say and what made it personal for you that the photography and the digital storytelling? Because you said it kind of happened naturally on that journey.

Krystle: 7:21

Yeah.

Krystle: 7:21

So that motherhood was a huge pivotal moment, obviously.

Krystle: 7:26

And then when I had my second child, she was born with a rare disease, and so then photography became a different thing for me, because she spent nine days in the hospital when she was first born and so, instead of taking her home with me every night, I took photos home every night, and it wasn't sort of till after that experience.

Krystle: 7:48

I did that intuitively, I think, in that time and obviously we were going through a lot of things and decision making and, you know, just very focused on that one experience at the time. But afterwards I had this resource of photographs that documented every day and it was my goal to just take one photo of something that happened that day, and it helped me to be able to look back and process it to, to make it real, and I think that's really important as we go through experiences, especially when they're a bit traumatic to be able to reflect back and see and acknowledge, take that time to see and acknowledge what we have experienced. So photography shifted for me in that way. And then that's when I, you know, a few years later, met Mike Lang in common language, yeah, and and and evolved into digital storytelling.

Lisa: 8:44

It seems like such a natural fit, like from what you were saying with the storytelling and how that happened, like even just your example of the storytelling by just being with a family in their home and not the unposed piece I think is so significant, because you're it's not the pretend moments that you're capturing that smile on their faces all posing for the camera. It's getting that in the moment, whatever's happening, and seeing the beauty in those pieces, regardless of the mood, right Whether it's good or not good, or however we want to label these things.

Lisa: 9:23

It's life and it's home, which is filled with all of those things where we feel safe, hopefully, to express ourselves in whatever way is genuine. So, yeah, I love that because of the photography and then plus digital storytelling on top really helps to process. It sounds like what you're saying is process through some of those emotions and feelings that are so hard.

Krystle: 9:48

Yeah, absolutely, I think it's. I mean, both of these mediums for storytelling help us tell our own stories internally, because we are also telling stories to ourself, you know, and then it also helps us to share those outwards. So, with the photography, maybe that's sharing those with your family and maybe that's making records for your children to see themselves as children and to see you in your motherhood at that phase of life. Um, and with the digital storytelling, it's, you know, going through the process of making a story and stopping to give yourself the time to actually think about all of the moments that you experienced, or all of and it's not necessarily the sequence of events, it's digging beyond that to actually what you felt and someone helping you to do that and reframe it or make sense of it, which is the powerful part of both of these things, but of digital storytelling especially helping people to make sense of it, and that helps others make sense of it too.

Lisa: 10:58

Right, having that perspective, an outsider's perspective, to be able to be the be the listener and and I know we're called facilitators but it's like a coach, you know, like you're there in the moment and we're, or a guide, like you're just there as a listening ear and, I guess, as an extra set of eyes, but you're really taking in the story and helping people to understand how it's perceived from an outsider's point of view, to make sense of it. And I do find at least in my experience, I do find that people process a lot of information and it can be so therapeutic and it does help people to shift their perspective and see their story in a different light and often come to terms with some things that they never realized they would come to terms with. And I don't think that was the intention, like at least the stories I've done. That wasn't the intention was to even use it as a therapeutic modality, if you will, but that's sometimes the way it turns out, which is wonderful. It's just an extra, you know, compliment to the whole process itself.

Lisa: 12:04

But you've worked with a lot of different populations and I'm interested to hear more about the types of stories you've helped share, as well as how they would be shared, like what's the difference between? You touched on it briefly, on the difference between photography you could share it for legacy or preserving memories for family, and then digital stories could be shared in a different way. Could you explain a little bit more on how you share digital stories, like what would be the purpose of a digital story from your experience so far?

Krystle: 12:43

Right, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of different ways they can be shared, and I think that's one of the fascinating parts about the digital story is you don't really know how they're going to be shared once they've been created, right there, they take on a bit of a life. Some of the projects I've worked on have been structured, so there's been a way to share them at the end of the project.

Krystle: 13:06

For example, I worked on two co-facilitating two MADE workshops with individuals that supported family members through MADE and that was part of a research project out of Lakehead University about the experience of using MADE to help reduce the stigma and improve understanding. And so they have podcasts, they have a website and I was so impressed with how they structured the dissemination of the stories because they were ready to go. They are on a YouTube page. They interviewed the storytellers after with the podcast to talk about that experience.

Lisa: 13:45

And this is just so everybody knows.

Krystle: 13:47

This is medical assistance in dying that you're referring to Correct yes, correct, yeah, and the project is called Disrupting Death with Kathy Cortez, dr Kathy Cortez Miller out of Lakehead University.

Lisa: 14:01

Okay, and we can add that in the show notes.

Krystle: 14:04

Yeah, absolutely.

Krystle: 14:06

Another project I worked on and this was with Mike as well was for cannabis harm reduction, and so that one was really about youth, helping youth, and those stories were shared at a screening in our in-person workshop but then again on a website and being shared in person at various screenings and always having conversation around the stories as well.

Krystle: 14:32

And then I've done stories where you know storytellers prefer actually not to share them publicly and they want them shared in a more private, curated way, let's say, and that can change depending on what's going on in the storyteller's life at that time.

Krystle: 14:50

I've worked with someone who was in the public eye at that time and their story was important and they wanted it to be a part of the project that we were working on, but they didn't want it to be searchable because it wasn't for everyone. And then one of the more interesting ones I've also worked on is with siblings of medically complex individuals, and what we learned is that the siblings have a hard time sharing their stories. They want to tell them and they want to create resources for other siblings, but sharing your personal story when you have a family member who is medically complex is, I think it's hard. There's a lot of reasons for that. I think having attention on you is something that many siblings are uncomfortable with. There's some stigma around that too, around kind of drawing the attention to yourself. You know when your family member is experiencing, you know medically challenging times, so that's.

Lisa: 15:54

That's been an interesting one challenging times so that's, that's been an interesting one, and I'm just briefly looking at your website because you have a lot of links and resources about the stories that you're sharing right now on the digital storytelling area on your website.

Lisa: 16:07

And, yeah, like I can see that you have a nice clip called waitlist stories of cannabis harm reduction which is worth checking out, which gives a great example, like a scenario, on what a whole group looks like, like what one of your workshops would look like, as well as how they respond to one another, right and sharing the story and how you would develop one, and then also I see different samples of stories that you've helped facilitate.

Lisa: 16:32

So, yeah, there's so many different ways that you can use them, and I love what you're saying about how I think it's very common for us to think that we don't have a story to share because, somebody else's takes precedence in a way or that, by being a carer or a care partner, somebody else in the home who might need extra assistance, then we see ourselves kind of in the background or, like you know, my story doesn't matter where, it does, you know, and I think we learn a lot from the stories of people in those situations so that we can learn, like if we're ever in that scenario, or even if we're not just being able to understand a little bit more on what it's like to experience what they're going through, so that we can maybe even just increase our compassion, right and empathy.

Krystle: 17:24

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, how do we know, how do we know what services we need to provide and what our community would benefit from if we don't know the stories and don't understand the people we're working for and supporting? So, especially in a workshop environment. So a workshop, we have up to six storytellers and they can be done virtually or in person and they're typically done over about six weeks and sometimes shorter depending on the structure of the workshop. But those environments really bring people together and they create a bond and build community and they also have a really high therapeutic value. You know, there is that absolutely that element of bringing people together, helping others understand, but also just helping people not feel so alone in their lived experience right.

Krystle: 18:23

That community building element of the workshops is really important.

Lisa: 18:28

Yep, it's all about building community and I think just having that trusting environment to share your story and you know, and go through something like that with people who maybe don't there it's not like they've been in your shoes but people who are willing to just listen openly, without judgment, is so important, right To feel safe to share. So, crystal, on that note, with creating a safe space and a trusting environment, I'm also thinking about your bio, when I introduced you at first and we talked about trauma-informed care, and I wonder if you would explain a little bit about what that means for the listeners.

Krystle: 19:07

Yeah, so we are especially in a health scenario. We're often asked to share stories, and I say we because I'm speaking, you know, I guess, of myself as being a part of that medical community, as a parent and from my experience, you're often asked to tell a story and not quite given the structure on how to, how to do that and what that looks like. So I really and Common Language is amazing at really teaching the skill and prioritizing it but making sure that we are really prepared as we go into a project. I'm often working with organizations who will commission me to facilitate individual stories or run a workshop, and the planning part of that experience is so important. If we are well planned and we know why we're asking people to tell their stories beyond just ticking a box and having a patient voice as part of the project.

Krystle: 20:11

we really want to know why are we asking people to be vulnerable? What do we want to learn from them? It helps people to understand what story they're telling and then again it's making sure people are ready to tell their story. Not everyone is ready to tell their story and so being able to recognize that as a facilitator it's quite an emotional experience. As you said, lisa, right, it's, it's.

Krystle: 20:35

There is probably always an underlying therapeutic element of storytelling, and so knowing that that individual is in a place in their life where they're not kind of living in chaos or living in their traumatic experience at that present time helps to set them up for success and the project up for success.

Krystle: 20:55

And then, as we go through the whole process, we're always checking in with storytellers to make sure that they're feeling good about it. I've even had experiences where storytellers have come in wanting to tell a certain story and then they get into the process and other stories come out because it just needed to. But it's a hard story and we've had to guide them back into the story that they initially came into the workshop for, because we can just see emotionally that that story that's kind of come out it's not the right time for them to tell that you know it's too hard to get through it. So, being able to recognize those cues from people as you're going through the process, and also letting them know that this is completely under their control. It's their story. We will not, you know, be owning their story. They have all the agency to make it their own. I think it makes it a really empowering experience for individuals.

Lisa: 21:59

Yeah, that's so important. Thank you for sharing that. I know there's a lot of work just in determining, you know, is this an appropriate time for this person to be sharing a story, and that's done through a pretty great screening tool. You know where we take some time and ask some questions and consider what's going on, making sure that we're respecting their own well-being, and I know that we talk a lot about that.

Lisa: 22:25

Enhancing well-being is really our common goal. But, yes, thank you for sharing what you did. It's a heavy subject and I think it's good for people to kind of understand that it's not always the right time to share a story. So, understanding that you know it's. Maybe it's worth shifting to a lighter story or something else, or it might just not be the right time for a specific subject or a theme or whatever you were commissioned for in this circumstance to share.

Lisa: 22:53

On that note, I have what pictures or images or different elements, forms of media, make it into a story.

Krystle: 23:13

Well, I don't decide it for the storytellers, that's the number one they decide. But I love that part of the project because, or the process, because it's the time where the creativity comes out. And I think, people that writing your story is hard, right, you get through. Finding all the moments um and Lisa, we work through, you know, we work through a very specific structure of um, finding, telling, crafting and sharing our stories. So finding the moments is like very arduous. Sometimes it's. It's a I always call it a bit of a brain dump of you know, getting all of all of the ideas and moments that have impacted us out there, and then you do the work of putting it into a narrative and writing your story and then there's this sort of like ah, you know, I can take a breath, you're kind of halfway through that, the project, and you've let something go and you've gotten that, I think, those words and that narrative out of your body and it's now a thing you know when you've recorded your voiceover. And so when we get into the image part and maybe it's the photographer in me and the artist in me but I just love the synergy of that because people kind of feel excited there's a bit of a new you know new life into the story and into the project at that point and you get to think about creative metaphors.

Krystle: 24:39

You know, visually, what do you want people to feel when they're listening to your story and when they're watching your story? And the music and the images and these sort of underlying feelings that we give people as they're watching our stories have a really huge impact and they are very much uniquely. The storytellers, you know character and personality. I think when we watch the stories, they're all different. Because of that, everyone, everyone is attracted to different things, right, and different ways of sharing. So, yeah, so I think mostly it's asking people you know, what do you, what do you want other people to feel like when they watch your story and how does maybe that moment feel to you? It doesn't have to be a literal image of someone you know, for example, in a care home or in a hospital. If we're talking about that moment in their experience, we can show images that represent that journey for them.

Lisa: 25:40

Right, yeah, it doesn't have to be showing them specifically in, you know, a hospital bed. It could be just evoking that emotion on what that feels like and going along with whatever metaphor, for example, like what you're saying.

Krystle: 25:54

Yeah, yeah, and that's the other element too, around privacy with the stories, because oftentimes people don't want to show personal images or it's just not appropriate to show personal images, and so there are many options and ways around that, and they can still be quite creative and have sort of a unique element to them, even when you're using stock images.

Lisa: 26:19

Yes, yeah, that's true, because there are a lot of the royalty free stock images or not royalty-free, but different ones that you can use besides your own personal ones, and some people don't have a whole lot of photos. So there's, there's resources to be used. And I think the other piece is there's only for a video, say, that's three to five minutes long, like a digital story. There's only so many pictures you can have. I've had, you know, individuals come and they send me like a hundred photos. I'm like how are we going to do this? But I think it's really around the relevancy and I've started saying this to my husband when we watch TV too like there's a reason. They just showed that there's nothing relevant about that that part. You know there's nothing relevant about that part. You know that clip that they just showed, so that there's always some reason behind why you're showing whatever imagery in a video or even in photography, right, like there's a story behind it, something that we need to pay attention to.

Krystle: 27:20

Yeah, yeah, we can't always put a word to it, you know. You just have a feeling and that's the cool. I think the other cool part about a digital story, um, any of these creative arts in health, um, they leave us with a feeling, right, and that stays with us in a different way. Those emotions and that sensation that you have in your body when you watch someone's story or you see visuals of someone's life experience, they stay with us in a different way, and I think that's what we need in healthcare, you know, because we need to re-insert the human experience, and those elements of emotion and empathy are are definitely a part of it and will help us to improve all of our services and care, and I think in many, in in any population that we're working with.

Lisa: 28:16

Yeah, I agree, and I love that you said that, because that's exactly the whole reason for this podcast is is the fact that that I I do think that adding video whenever possible and having the voice and being able to humanize health care, you know, like really able to connect people more than this, is patient one or patient a, and seeing and understanding more about who they are as a, as a person, you know, and and I don't think we can do that just by the information in a chart. We don't, we don't establish relationships that way. So it is all about how do we create these environments and and reasons why we would want to get to know each other.

Lisa: 29:02

Well, it's usually by connecting on some personal level you know whether it's we both had dogs or we both went to whatever school or lived in the same city or have children whatever it might be. There's so many different pieces that we're not going to pick up on just by reading information in a chart or even words. Like you know, there's different levels of what we can capture, but definitely I think being able to do this in a quick, efficient way that's effective in healthcare would be, yeah, so essential.

Krystle: 29:35

Yeah, Connecting our uh, our head and our heart. Right, that's right. They need to be aligned.

Krystle: 29:42

I've heard a few healthcare professionals use that term and it's very true because you know, we're always making these very especially. You know, in healthcare we're making these very logical decisions and we're following systems that are in place and there has to be room for the human heart in there and emotion and feeling and empathy and staying connected connected to that. And stories really help with that. You talked about how do we? You know, how do we share stories, and the amazing thing about a digital story is it's short and it can be informal, so it doesn't have to be a big presentation. They can be shared at rounds, they can be shared in meetings. They can be, you know, they can be shared in meetings. They can be, you know, they can be shared at conferences, obviously in more formal spaces, but they can be shared in education platforms. They can be shared in onboarding. You know, when you're bringing new people in, there's really an endless, yeah, endless possibilities there.

Lisa: 30:40

So yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's so important and I think there's all different ways to do them, like they don't have to be so intense or serious or time consuming. I think the more time you put into it, obviously, the more polished it's going to be. Yeah, but I think there's. Depending on the relevancy and why we're doing the story would depend on how much work you put into it. It's a great opportunity to share your story, yeah.

Krystle: 31:07

Yeah, and and you know, on that note, lisa, when you're, when you're doing a workshop, it's the storytellers who are often there. It's their first time making their own movie, so they're not typically going to be a super polished, you know experience, but they're very authentic experience and I think they're very meaningful stories and something about me, even though, you know, I have a design and design background in my photography background. I love things that are polished and well formed, but there's something about our digital story, the element of it, that isn't that, I think, because we're so inundated with visuals and media these days that are polished and, you know, especially now we have ai coming into the world and all of these things that, um, aren't necessarily real, you know, and we can't connect with them emotionally. The same way, there's something that is very unique about that human the relational experience of creating a digital story and sharing that unpolished personal experience. Absolutely yeah.

Lisa: 32:20

It does stand out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's authentic. I love that I love that well, crystal. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming on today and sharing so much. Maybe one last question. I know I'm really adding a lot now, but I am curious. If you were not able to speak up for yourself say, you had to be in hospital tomorrow what would you want others to know about you, like what would really matter?

Krystle: 32:53

Creativity, that's the one thing that comes to mind. Just that, that, that that creative process, in whatever that looks like, if you can take many forms, is something that's very much embedded in me, and working with that, you know. Creativity with others like that creative, collaborative thing. So I would probably want someone to bring me, bring me some art supplies or-.

Lisa: 33:20

I love it. What a great answer, yeah.

Krystle: 33:23

Yeah, some things that I could just draw and escape to that world I love that way.

Lisa: 33:31

That's always been a part of you, right Like that's the way you express yourself. What a great answer.

Krystle: 33:37

Yeah, thanks for asking Thank you.

Lisa: 33:40

Is there anything else? Because I don't want to just cut us off without you having the floor for anything else you want to share. Is there anything else that comes to mind that you want to share before we we end today?

Krystle: 33:52

um, I think we've talked about a lot, we've covered a lot, you know, I'm just grateful for this conversation that you're putting out there about stories, and, um, there are many areas that digital stories, visual stories, photography can fall into and can help. Someone said to me recently, creativity is the new productivity, and I was like oh, I love that. I love that. I'm gonna just take that one home, and I think digital storytelling really fits right into that, especially with the health within the health realm. So thank you for having me absolutely, thank you.

Lisa: 34:32

So final messages for everybody pick up a camera, capture those moments, whether they're posed or not posed, but do it, of course, with permission. Yes, there's other people in them. Yeah, and and just see storytelling really and capturing your essence as just the day to day stuff, whether it's at home or with your friends, and capturing those relationships and consider the digital storytelling realm because it doesn't have to be hard but it's definitely worth it and I would say even just creating the community, like you said and creating those relationships and connections with other people who are doing the same sort of work as an awesome experience to have.

Lisa: 35:15

So thank you, thankfully said, hopefully a full summary.

Krystle: 35:18

I think that's perfect. And you know, get your environment in there too when you're taking a picture. I think I love it. Stand back, don't do a selfie, do a self-portrait. They're different, right? Set your camera up on a table and take a picture of yourself oh, I love it.

Lisa: 35:36

Thank you, Krystle, It's been awesome. Everybody's gonna get a lot from this, so we'll talk again soon. Yeah, thanks, so much.

Lisa: 35:44

Thanks for listening today. If you enjoyed this episode, take a minute to look at the show notes for resources and links, and be sure to leave me a rating and review. And also you can follow the show so that you get notified of when the next one comes out. And lastly, if you can think of somebody in your life who you think would enjoy this podcast, I hope you share it with them as well, so that they can listen in on the conversations and ponder how to capture their own essence. Take care, and I look forward to the next time.